Winter 2026 DC Participant Pulse Survey Webinar

Bill

Hello, and thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to join our webinar. My name is Bill Schories. I'm the national sales director for DCIO here at Invesco, and I'm joined here today by Greg Jenkins, a managing director with Invesco for defined contribution solutions. Welcome to our third defined contribution participant pulse survey. When Greg and I were working with some internal stakeholders here at Invesco on our next pulse survey, we decided to tackle the topic that we're hearing the most about with the defined contribution sector right now, and that is private markets.

Bill

No surprise there. And also I, which seems to be everywhere in the news. So we partnered up, we partnered with Ipsos to go through interviewing over 500 participants, that currently contribute to their defined contribution plan. So here's the background on the participant pool that we surveyed. They had they were on average, 20. Well, not on average. They range from 26 to 65 years old. They had to be actively contributing to their plan at work. And we interviewed participants that were employed at large employers. So employers with over 1000 employees, they had to be employed for at least a year. And the incomes ranged from a low of $30,000 all the way up the ladder. On the right side of this slide, you see some of the breakdowns of the demographics here. We had a pretty even mix of male and female participants. We did the survey was overweight towards the private sector, but there was a good representation from public sector employees. And on the generations it was, you know, in terms of the age bands, very healthy with Gen-X and millennials, a smattering of baby boomers and hardly any Gen Zers. So we had a very diverse mix of employers, you know, employer base and employee population that we, interviewed, again, we partnered with Ipsos on this. And the results, you know, are summarized on the next couple of slides. And then we'll do a deeper dive into the findings. So on the private market side, this was surprising given the amount of surveys that have been done by others in the industry on this. We've seen in some of those other surveys, there's been a high acceptance or of at least the perception of a high acceptance of a willingness on participants to engage or invest in private markets in their DC plans. In our survey, the results were a little bit different here, but they need some explaining. Only 36% of participants were interested right off the bat. In private markets, 50% are interested, but they want to know more. They require additional education. They want additional details about private markets, how they work, fees and expenses. And Greg will go into much more detail. So when you break this down, it seems overwhelming that they are interested 86%, but we kind of throw up a caution flag on this one because only 36% are interested without any reservations, 50%, you know, they want that additional education and 15% not a chance.

Bill

We're just going to stick with traditional investments. All the participants tend to stick to what they know. It's worked for them for the past 30 years or 20 years, however long they've been investing. And at this stage of their investment, you know, cycle, they're not willing to try new things or, you know, branch out from what is known and what is familiar on the private market on the AI side. Excuse me, on the AI side, you know, no real surprises here. Prior use of AI powered tools for financial planning or investment decisions, 53%, occasional 29% are interested. So again, overwhelming response about people that are already using it or are interested in using it. And again, you know, not so high on the hey, AI's not for me. We expect that number to go down over time as people become more and more comfortable with AI solutions in the marketplace. For some people, it's still relatively new. What was a little bit surprising is conservative investors. We thought, well, conservative investors are going to play everything close. You know, close held and not willing to branch out with new ideas. And that wasn't the case. Conservative investors are not want to sit on the sidelines. They show regular use of AI. They trusted to rebalance their portfolios and would allocate more of their portfolios to AI, than any other group. So that was a bit of a surprise. So we'll go into a little bit of more of the participant profiles in terms of their risk reward characteristics.And for that I'll turn it over to Greg.

Greg

Well thanks Bill. It's great to be on today. And really excited to share these results. We've been doing research since 2007 and we've done over 20 studies, but this is probably the most exciting one I've been involved in, just because I think the results are really interesting and, really, really happy to share this with you. So let me get into it. Before we got into specifics around private markets, and AI, we wanted to get kind of a high level understanding of where, participants were. And, you know, as Bill mentioned, there's been a lot of studies, that have come out about, private markets and about AI. I think what's different about this survey is that we divide participants into cohorts to, analyze further. So for instance, conservative, moderate and aggressive investors all self-identified and then also do it for me, do it with me and do it myself as categories. And we also had a tech adopter category that we used, for AI as well. So this allows us to, you know, dive into those cohorts and really understand why people responded the way they did.

Greg

So first we wanted to find out, we have put this question on many surveys in the past. How do you identify yourself as a do it for me investor? A do it with me or do it myself? We have seen a profound change, in this chart over the years. And I let me just say upfront to when we have when you survey over 500 participants, the data tends to be very stable. So when you see a change of double digits, that means something is really going on here. And what we started to notice a change. Right coinciding with Covid from 2019 to 2025, you can see a huge change, in the number of people that identify as do it with me, the do it for me crowd that is receding. Also do it myself is up just a little bit as well. And there's a lot of theories behind this and we have a few, but interested to, to talk more about that. But this is a huge move towards personalization. Do it with me is it fits very well with American investors as well. American investors we've seen as throughout all of our work, they do like to have some control. So even if they're getting advice or they're getting help, they do like to maintain that element of control. And that fits very well with this do it with me theme. So we also, as I mentioned, we also divided the population into cohorts about the type of investor they are conservative, moderate, aggressive. As you can see, many people identify themselves as moderate investors. In fact, 63% of the respondents on this survey identified as moderate. And that's up a little bit from our last study in 2021. But not by a huge amount.

Greg

And so that's, that's the majority of participants. And it's also the majority of, millennials. Millennials we found, interestingly, tend to be 88% either tend to be moderate or conservative. So that kind of I think blows up the theory that, you know, millennial investors are all going to be, you know, aggressive Robinhood, crypto type investors. So not maybe not what you would expect. We also ask people about how they like to invest. Do they like to invest, according to their risk tolerance, the year they hope to retire or according to their investment goals. And you can see this has been pretty stable as well. Just from last year to this year and even and even before really, we find more people are interested in investing, by their goals as opposed to, according to the year they're going to retire or risk tolerance. This is that move towards personalization. We saw it in our last study. It's very notable a huge move to personalization, which really is no surprise when you think about it. If you can, if you can customize a mattress and have it, delivered, within, you know, ten days, then why shouldn't your investments be, be customized as well? We also find, apologies had a little trouble with the slides there. So let's get into let's get into private markets first and we'll get to AI later. But starting with private markets. We wanted to test the familiarity and interest in private markets upfront without giving any definition at all. So we didn't define what private markets investments were. And we asked, how familiar are you with these investments? And as you can see, 11% said they hadn't heard of them, 17% said, they had heard of them but didn't understand them. 43% said they were somewhat familiar. And then 29% said they were very familiar. So a lot of a lot of familiarity with private markets investments, but also a crowd that, that is not familiar with them.

Greg

And you can see that in terms of people unfamiliar, that tends to skew towards more towards, women. And keep in mind, we have seen in many of our studies that there is an overconfidence factor with men. We see it in every study that we've done since 2007. Men tend to, I think, imagine they have more, investment capabilities and they really do. And so that shows up in these numbers as well. So let's going back to those cohorts, conservative, moderate or aggressive, I think those are really telling here when we get into these, these findings. And why don't we take a deep dive on moderate investors. And so moderate investors are a good group to really examine because it's most investors, nearly two thirds of all participants identified themselves as moderate, risk investors. They like to do it for me approach. They also prefer private markets exposure as you as you'll see through, a managed account more than their other than their cohorts from, or their peers that are in the conservative or the aggressive can and ignore the two graphs on the right there we have a much, much more visual, are much easier to see version of those in the next couple of slides. So we found that participants are generally open to private markets investments. So first we asked, do you believe, and this is after we gave them a basic definition of what private markets investments are. Mind you just one, you know, 1 or 2 short sentences we asked, do you believe private market investments should be part of a long term retirement portfolio? And 40% said yes, they had diversification and potential growth, 52% said possibly. And again, back to Bill's point earlier, a lot of people are open to the idea, but they want to know more. And then 9% said no, I prefer traditional public market investments. We then asked, would you be interested in having private markets investments included in your employer sponsored retirement plan? Very similar results. Yes, definitely 36%. 50% said maybe depending on risks and fees and 15% said no.

Greg

So we found most participants, again, there's a move to personalization and a definite trend in that direction. People want a personalized approach with respect to their retirement portfolio. So we asked, if you were to invest in private markets in your employer sponsored plan, how would you want to do it? And what we found is, 51% said as added part as part of diversified portfolios, 24% said as part of target date funds, and 26% said direct fund selection. And by the way, here's where I need to give my usual admonition, to anyone listening that we are not in favor of offering private markets investments as standalone options on a menu. And by the way, no one in the industry that I know that I've talked to is thinking that way either. In spite of, you know, some of the articles we've seen in the media warning about this, no one in the industry is thinking about private markets in that way, with respect to defined contribution plans.

Bill

Yeah and Greg, and we even saw that in the executive order from the president where, you know, private markets were, you know, in the language of that executive order, it was mentioned that they should be part in DC plans as part of an advice driven solution, and that could be a target date fund or a managed account. Not nowhere did it say standalone option. So, you know, we still hear that in the media. We don't know where that's coming from that, you know, people are, you know, worried about this becoming a standalone option maybe someday down the road. But, you know, for the foreseeable future, embedded in advice driven or portfolio design solution. 

Greg

That's exactly right. And I think so you do see a direct fund selection crowd here. These are the aggressive investors. And these are people that do want to do it on their own, whether that's inside the plan or out. We know that's going to be outside of the plan. There's going to be very, very few plans that offer these as direct options, perhaps maybe some options in the brokerage window if their plan has one down the road. I think right now most of those are, are turned off, in, the brokerage window options. Yeah. But when you 

Bill

Let me ask you a question on the acceptance of private markets, we see, you know, 36%, you know, saying, yes, you know, there's a cohort that is saying, yes, but we need more information. There seems to be more of a reluctance amongst boomers and more of an acceptance amongst younger people, you know, what do you attribute that to? Is there anything going on in the marketplace where you would think younger people are more readily accepting of private markets? Is it the whole crypto thing? How do you think that might explain that?

Greg

That's, you know, that's a great question, Bill. And I think and this is just a theory, we don't know for sure, but I think that a lot of this is, is due to crypto and not crypto inside of for when 401K plans. Let me be clear on that. But I think the idea of investing in crypto as a totally different investment option or a different investment than anybody was used to has really opened up people's eyes to investing. And in terms of what could conceptually be out there, what could be invested in and also the advent of investing, where people can pick up their phone and invest in almost anything under the sun. I think that is really move the needle in terms of, you know, the creativity, that people feel with respect to investing that really didn't exist before. So it's definitely not your, you know, your uncles or your grandfather's, mutual fund, type of a mindset anymore. Yeah. 

Bill

So pretty much anything, as you said, in anything that's not your, your, your parents or grandparents mutual fund, the younger generation seems to their ears perk up and they have an interest in it. If it's not, you know, viewed as old school investing.

Greg

So that's exactly right. And you look at these categories I think this is interesting. So aggressive investors make up that direct fund selection crowd. As I've mentioned conservative investors dominate the target date crowd. So private market is target for is part of target date funds. And then the and then the moderate investors kind of dominate that, managed account crowd as part of a personalized, diversified portfolio.

Greg

So really interesting stuff. We also asked about, some more questions about private markets in managed funds. So we asked first, would you be comfortable with a managed account service investing a portion, typically 10 to 20% of your balance in private market investments? 80% said, yes, 20% said no. And you can see the no crowd was dominated by boomers. By the way, we also saw some aggressive investors in that no crowd. And again, that's because they want to do it on their own. So that crowd's always going to be there. And but it's also older investors as well. And then on the right hand side we asked, do you believe private markets investments should be part of a target date funds? And we got the same the same number 80%. Yes, 20%. No. Interestingly, the makeup of that no crowd changed a little bit. So, boomers were a little bit more, amenable to private markets in target date funds versus a managed account. And this fits with our other results. The, the younger investors liked the idea of a managed account more. The older investors, boomers liked the concept of a target date fund, more so. So now we get into language, and I think this is another thing that that kind of sets this study apart. And in addition to the investing cohorts that I mentioned earlier, we also get into language in many of you know us for our language studies. And so, we also wanted to test some words and phrases around private markets to see how they'd score with participants. So, the first thing we asked was which of the following terms or phrases would make private markets feel more accessible or less intimidating? And the participants were allowed to pick more than one option here. And we saw the best scoring

Greg

One was better understanding of costs. So costs are definitely an issue. People are people want to know what these cost, even if they're inside of a target date fund, it's still, something that people want to know about well known fund managers. That is always, you know, something that we see is, you know, brand matters and people want to know, are these reputable, known, investment managers and then also access to educational content now, really interesting, on the educational content, one would think that that would be dominated by, you know, people that didn't know about investments or, private investments or boomers, but actually we found that aggressive investors really gravitated to access to educational content. And again, that's because some of them want to make their own, investments. They want to make their own calls on private market investments. And that's why educational content resonated with them. On the right hand side, we tested some words, some preferred terms. And, you know, try to figure out which what terms would make people more comfortable with private markets in their employer sponsored retirement plan. And we saw some old familiar terms that we've tested, many times before stability, growth and diversification are all really powerful words, long term. Also, we can't miss with the word. The words long term, where it starts to get a little murky is when you get into the more abstract aspects of private markets investing. When we talked about private equity, exclusive access, we found that does not work with people.

Greg

We've tested that before. This idea that you can get exclusive access to these investments, it might sound great to some of us that are in the industry, but to participants, that just doesn't resonate. And then finally, we have private credit and alternative assets. No surprise there. We did. We actually did a study on alternative, assets way back in 2015. We got very similar results of the word alternatives does not mean anything to the vast majority of people. And private credit, I think is an interesting one. And food for thought. Many think that private credit has the most runway in defined contribution plans. In other words, it's got the most application and would be the most helpful for participants. But as you can see here, it is not a well understood concept. So I think that's, some work to do for the industry. We need to get people more comfortable with, private credit, even if it's inside of target date funds or managed accounts. 

Bill

Yeah. Greg, this looks like really just shows the need for continued education. And really, nothing's changed in terms of what gives participants comfort. It's the it's the terms that are more benefit focused as it shows on the right hand side of the slide. So again, stability, growth, diversification, whether it's public or private, those things give people greater comfort in terms of their acceptance of the investment type. 

Greg

That's right. Yeah. Benefits focus terms and terms that are more, more descriptive or, or concrete. Another example that is on the following slide. And I know there's a lot of, a lot of bars here and a lot of colors, but if you'll just focus on, on the blue, because that is the level of comfortability. We asked, how comfortable would you be investing? Would you be investing in the following categories? And if you just sort of look at those colors now, they change from left to right. You'll see those more tangible investments on the left hand side property, real assets, commercial real estate, people are generally pretty comfortable with that. Infrastructure also scored well on the other end. On the right you see private debt again, not well understood by the public. Alternatives. We know that word doesn't score well. And then just the general term of private markets.

Greg

A lot of people don't know what to what to do with that as a general category. So you can see again, these, these more tangible terms tend to score better. And that fits with all the other language research that we've done over the years. We also tested, an actual description from a UK, defined contribution master trust. Now, many of you may know the UK is ahead of us when it comes to including private markets. And they've actually got a mandate now from the government there to include private markets. And what we find in the UK, we've also seen this in Australia, is that they simply just call them diversifiers. So target date funds that invest in a wide range of assets including stocks, bonds and diversifiers. That is directly from a UK participant website. What was much more favorable for U.S participants was a little bit more detail. So target date funds and invest in a wide range of assets including stocks, bonds, private equity, infrastructure, commercial real estate and cash. And we have seen this with other studies as well. We've done some work in the UK, we've done some work in and in Japan, even if you could believe that. And what we find is American investors want more detail. They want to know what they're investing in now, not pages of useless details, which we've been very good at in this industry over the years. But meaningful and succinct, you know, descriptors of what you're actually investing in. And that seems to resonate, with people much better than just using the word diversifier. So trust us there. Diversifier that does it. That doesn't hold, with American participants. So that, so those are the private markets findings. I'd like to shift gears and talk about, artificial intelligence. We asked a number of questions about AI. Also very interesting results. And let's go ahead and get into those. So first of all, we asked participants, have you used AI finance tools and are you interested in them?

Greg

And so know there's a lot of numbers here, but let me make this simple. So 23% said yes, they've already used them. 30% said yes, occasionally 29% no, but I'm interested in 17% said no, and I'm not interested, don't tell me any more about it. And, and so men in millennials dominated, you know, on the left hand side where they're more familiar, more comfortable.

And then we found that, the no. And no, I'm not interested tended to be, dominated more by, by boomers and also by women. Now, really interesting when you look at the investment cohorts again, remember we've got conservative moderate and aggressive, categories. And we can use that to analyze any of this data. We found, really kind of a bifurcation of conservative investors. Some of them were very turned on by AI and others were not. And so it seems that some conservative investors, they're conservative very purposefully. Maybe they know too much. And some conservative investors are worried they know too little. And so they've got a lack of confidence. So you've got, the conservative categories really, kind of split. So I thought that was pretty interesting.

Greg

So we also found a varying degree of trust with AI investment decisions, in varying degrees. And I should point out upfront here. So we asked in a previous survey, about just general thoughts on AI. And what we found is people that said people that were wavering that said no, or maybe when it came to specific financial decisions, they were much more positive.

In other words, if you say overall, are you are you comfortable with AI getting involved in your retirement plan? You're going to get a fair amount of people that say no. But if you ask them about specific tasks or problems or challenges that they have, excuse me, like selecting investments, initially, rebalancing my portfolio, setting up a retirement withdrawal program, you get much more response, much more positivity. So even people that said, no, will also will say yes when it comes to these specific categories. And we saw that here. In fact, 20%, 20% plus a few in some of these categories said yes fully. But really the sweet spot is yes with human review. And we found this is really we think this is really the key.

Greg

And the way to talk about AI with participants. People loved the concept of AI as my copilot, AI as my partner. That resonates with people. They want that human oversight. 

Bill

Yeah. And Greg, the general question got a lower response in terms of favorability because the participants viewed it as complete, you know, a complete takeover by AI, you know, unbridled or unconstrained when we limited it to specific tasks. You know, now that fear went away and, oh, just on rebalancing of course, you know, with, with reviews. So, great that you pointed that out because, you know, the general question, people were a little bit apprehensive on, on giving control, but I 

Greg

yeah, I think it's really interesting. So, here's a little bit of levity, for anyone listening, we thought this was really funny. We asked people, who would you trust more to help manage your retirement investments, a family member or an AI powered tool? 55% said an AI powered tool, 45% a family member. And if that seemed strange to you, I would love to introduce you to my brother in law or a couple of uncles, and I have. I think a lot of us have those folks in their family as well.

Bill

I got a cousin, I got a cousin, Tony in Brooklyn, who's the stock expert. So he would take issue with us. 

Greg

They always are. They always are. And then, you know, that makes a little bit more sense. We also asked, and again, this just goes along with that copilot theme that I just mentioned. What would increase your trust in AI for retirement planning, human oversight, big, big keyword or advisor involvement, clarity on the algorithms or how the service works, ease of use and then less so, simpler language and visuals. I mean, simpler language. Yeah, I think we would we would say always matters. But what's even more important is that human oversight, and some control so that so people want to feel control and that comes through in all the studies that we do, especially with Americans, is having an element of control, with their investments, with their retirement plan, even if it's perceived control that tends to work very well for people.

Greg

And it's a little bit deeper on that, on that control. How important is maintaining control over your retirement investments, even when using, tools? 62% extremely important. And this is where it gets really interesting. So none of us are probably surprised, given what I just said and the results we looked at. Probably no one surprised by this chart on the left.

But if you look at the little box underneath, I think that's what's really interesting here is we also asked people to identify themselves on this survey as early tech adopters, mainstream tech adopters or late adopters, just so we could understand who is comfortable with AI and who's not among those different groups. And what we found is 96% of early tech adopters still think it's important to maintain personal control. So, that may go against, you know, conventional wisdom and that surprised me. I really thought that, I really thought that, the early tech adopters would be much more, you know, I said it for me and forget it, but not so, they want control as well. We also asked on the right hand side, are you comfortable with your retirement plan provider using AI to personalize your services or plan feature? 66% two thirds said yes. One third said no. The no crowd again was, heavy with boomers, also a little bit higher with women. The yes crowd was really popular with millennials and also with men.

Greg

Now let's talk about concern. So why are people saying no? And what we found is there is, you know, there is about a 10 to 15% group that is never going to adopt AI, I they're going to say no at every, every point. But for everyone else it's you know, it's something that can be, can be overcome with more education, more information. So let's get into some of the concerns. So first of all, the benefits, what do you associate with what benefits do you associate with using AI? Cost efficiency was number one efficiency and decision making reduced emotional bias. I thought that was very interesting. I didn't expect that to, to perform as well as it did, improve portfolio performance also scored pretty well. And so I thought it was really interesting that cost efficiency scored number one. What's, what's really, remarkable about this is that that aligns exactly with plan sponsors and the industry. The reason for using AI in the first place is for cost efficiency, because we can't possibly give the white glove personalized treatment to every single participant. So it's interesting that people recognize that they understand that using AI can help with cost efficiency, whether it's their cost or their employers cost. It's cost. And people understand that. And that that was, more popular with men than women and also, more popular option with, millennials. We also asked about, concerns, and I mentioned that earlier. And data privacy and security is number one. So that's the number one thing, holding people back from being more enthusiastic about AI.

Greg

You can see that's dominated by boomers. It's also heavy with women. And we know that from all of our other work that women tend to be more thoughtful about risk, and they think more about these things. And it's a very good thing that they do. And that's and that's why there's, there's concerns, more concern about data privacy and security, with that group, you also have overreliance on automation. That's, I think, a concern that everyone has and then limited understanding of my goals. There's no way I can understand my personal goals. And we saw that in some of the write in responses that we got on the survey. Also lack of transparency. You know, I want to know how this how this service works and, and what is it doing with my data? Those are those are big concerns that people have.

Greg

So we also asked, about, you know, whether this would be a standard feature in the future or, you know, asking people to look ahead a little bit. We asked them, will I become a standard feature in retirement planning tools over the next five years? 43% said definitely. 46% said possibly, depends on regulation and adoption. And it's interesting these are participants not plan sponsors. It almost sounds like a plan sponsor response. And then 11% said no, not likely. We asked, would you be more likely to use AI in retirement planning if it were integrated into the platform offered by your employer or your retirement provider? And we saw a 51% here. Pretty, pretty positive, 31% said yes, but it depends on the provider and the features. So there's always that. Yes, maybe crowd. And then 18% said no. So I think very positive results overall. You can see that people are you know, definitely interested in AI. They definitely think it can help. But they want that, oversight. They want human oversight. They want, some, you know, some element of control that's very important for people.

But I think overall, this is, you know, very positive for everyone that that, you know, AI does have the potential to help participants and that people recognize that. And then, in terms of closing comments on private markets, I would just say that, you know, we've seen lots of surveys that show people are positive on private markets. I think our showed positivity as well, except there are a lot of people that want to know more. They want to know more about fees, they want to know more about risks, and they want to know what they're investing in. So just saying we're investing in private markets just trust us on that. Even if it's inside of a target data or a managed account, it's probably not enough. People want a little bit more detail. 

Bill

And Greg, on the AI slide, given the positive response to this, that they would be more likely to use it if it were a feature on their employer sponsored plan. In your conversations with record keepers, plant sponsors, do you see this being embedded within recordkeeping systems where employees will have access to it? To utilize this already happening? What's your take on that? 

Greg

You know, that's a great question, Bill. And I think it goes back to specific tasks and challenges. I think that's where you get universal agreement from plant sponsors, from record keepers and participants that, you know, I can definitely help with some of these specific tasks. I don't think anyone at this point is thinking that, you know, I can manage a participant's retirement and make all the decisions for them. But when it comes to these specific, challenges that people have, or another one could be, you know, when to take a loan out. Is that a good idea? I think that's where another area we haven't tested that yet, but I think it's another area where I could be very helpful. And that's where you seem to get universal agreement across these, these different groups. Is that, the future is bright for I. 

Bill

Gotcha. Okay. Thank you.

Greg

Yeah. So that that, you know, that concludes our findings. I hope everyone found this, valuable. I think that, you know, both on the private markets area and I, we've got a lot of positive things, to work with here, and there's, but there's lots of work to do, and we've got we've got to figure out how, private markets will be explained to participants, even inside of managed accounts and target date funds. And with AI, we've got to figure out the best way to harness the power of AI to truly make plans more efficient and to help participants help participants make better decisions. And after all, that's what all this is about is improving participant outcomes and how we can do that. Yeah, and thank you, everybody, for taking the time out of your schedules to listen to this webinar.

Bill

We hope it was informative. Open some new ideas in terms of your thinking on private markets and AI. These are two topics that are dominating the retirement industry. You know, if you look at any of the publications or newsletters, there's always an article regarding private markets and AI. So we thought it was very timely to get the pulse of the participants in terms of their thoughts on these two very important topics. We expect to continue to see further adoption and involvement in the DC landscape on both of these fronts. So great. Thank you for your thoughts and going through this. 

Greg

Thanks, Bill. Enjoyed as usual and.